Episode 14: Dr. Mary Neal Sandra: Welcome to another episode of We Don’t
Die. Where my goal is to give you evidence that although our bodies will disappear we
survive physical death when we aren’t afraid of death. We are less afraid of life from
these episodes. My aim is for all of us to take more risks in life, go after our dreams,
have great relationships and some joy in the process. I’m your host Sandra Champlain author of the
international bestseller We Don’t Die – A Skeptic’s Discovery of Life after Death. Today
I am super excited to introduce you to Dr. Mary Neal. Dr. Neal is a board certified orthopedic
spine surgeon who drowned while kayaking on a South American River. She experienced life
after death. She went to heaven and back, conversed with Jesus and experienced God’s
encompassing love. She was returned to earth with some specific instructions for work she
still needed to do. Her life has been one filled with miracles and intervention of God.
Her story gives reason to live by faith and is definitely a story of hope. Dr. Neal currently lives and works in Jackson
Hole Wyoming. She is the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book To Heaven
and Back. Dr. Neal has told her extraordinary story on The Today Show, CNN, FOX and Friends,
Dr. Oz and so very many more. And I am clear that Dr. Neal has made her life about giving
you hope and promise enriching your faith and walk with God. And I’m delighted to have
you Dr. Neal as our guest today on We Don’t Die. Thank you, thank you, and thank you for
being here. Mary: Thank you for having me. Sandra: You’re welcome. And you’re right
there out west now talking to us. And if you don’t mind just letting us know a little bit
about you and the big question of why you believe we don’t die. Mary: Sure. Well I think it’s funny that you
started out the introduction to your show talking about skeptics because I would certainly
have put myself in that category prior to my own experiences. I am an orthopedic spine surgeon and as such
have spent many, many years really being trained to be a skeptic. I am a scientist and although
prior to my experience I would have said that I believed in God and I certainly hoped that
it was all true that there really was life after death that there was something more.
And I am like many physicians really went through my own medical training and found
that my belief that there must be something more strengthened many people go through medical
school and their training and really subscribe to what I think is really it’s on religion
which is really this religion of the intellect that science supersedes everything else and
every other experience. But for me I experienced it a little bit differently
because I found that as they went through my training I became more and more convinced
that the intricacies of not only the human body but the interactions of humans nature.
You’re all of the ecosystems was so incredibly finely tuned and intricate that I didn’t believe
that it could have come about just as a result of mere chance right. So before my accident I would have said that
I did think there was something more I certainly hope there was something more and I had been
around death plenty of times during my training and my practice but I also have to say that
I never really thought about death personally in terms of how what the experience would
be like or how it would really happen and perhaps no one really thinks about it in terms
of their own mortality but I certainly didn’t and I hadn’t given it that much thought until
1999 and in 1999 my husband and I went to Chile in South America for a kayaking trip. And before you think that I was crazy to begin
with I will tell you that we were very experienced kayaker’s avid kayakers we’ve kayak white
water across the country and that was really one of our passions. And friends of ours run
a rafting company and are professionals this is what they do and during the winters they
live in Chile and they guide American clients down the rivers and they’ve done that for
many, many years. And we decided to spend a week there kayaking with them which we did
and we had a terrific time doing it. And at the time we had four young children. My youngest son was barely a year old but
we felt that they were old enough for us to leave the country and so we did we went down
we had a great time. And on our final day of kayaking, we had decided to paddle a section
of river that’s well known for its waterfalls and these are drops of maybe fifteen feet,
fifteen to twenty feet, something like that which again may sound crazy to someone who
doesn’t kayak. But those drops are not unreasonable for experienced kayakers it’s not something
like Niagara Falls. It’s something that you know we’re not going over in a barrel
I mean this is something that you might you know you train to do. You go over that fifteen
to twenty feet in the kayak. Sandra: Right. Cool! Mary: and it’s something cool exhilarating
and challenging but it’s not totally unreasonable right.
It’s been done before. On that final day my husband actually work up with back pain which
is something he never had before since. But on that day he had back pain and so he actually
did not go on the river with me. I went on the river with again these friends of ours
who are professionals and then there were a couple of other people and we went over
the first couple of jobs and that was fine. We came to the first major drop and had decided
to run a smaller shoot chute and of get going and this river was such that there was tremendous
flow and once you were in the current you were committed. It’s not like you could turn
around a paddle upstream. This is a big river. And I went into the current started for the
smaller chute and a different guy at her head preceded me and had battled the entrance of
it and her boat became lodged sideways across the two rocks at the beginning of this drop
and she was pinned and she had been able to pull her spray skirt off that neoprene fabric.
Stretches from a kayaker’s waist to the boat to keep the water out Sandra: OK. Mary: She had pulled her spray skirt off and
pushed herself out she had swam downstream. OK but a boat was still there blocking the
entrance to this drop and so I was forced to veer over and go over the main waterfall
and as I went over that I could see the bottom and I could see tremendous flow and tremendous
turbulence and really couldn’t see and clean outflow. I have to say I wasn’t psyched, I
looked at the bottom and what I assumed would happen was that I would hit the bottom be
flipped upside down and not be able to right myself and I assumed that I would pull spray
skirt off pushed myself, be tumbled around before I reach downstream. Right and that is an experience that is never
pleasant but it is something that is part of kayaking. It would not have been the first
time that it ever happened to me and although one always hopes it’s last time. So that’s
what I assumed. But instead I see rocks down there the waterfall and the front end of my
boat became pinned or stuck in the rocks and the underwater features and so I was still
upright my boat but pinned and the volume of the water immediately and completely submerged
me and the boat and the force of the water and the weight of the water then pressed my
you know my chest the upper part of my body to the front deck of the boat. It’s such a
great force that I couldn’t move at all and I’m a spy. Certain I am a very calm even tempered
sort of a person right. I am involved in high stress emergent type situations and so I’ve
often been asked what you did you panic. And the answer is No I mean I’ve been I’ve been
underwater before on a kayak and I’m very calm person. Sandra: OK. Mary: And so I immediately set about doing
those things that would either free me from the boat or free the boat and I did everything
I could think of and it became clear very quickly that nothing I was doing was making
any difference at all. I couldn’t move my arms half of an inch let alone pull them back
enough to pull the space good off of my boat. I’m also a very pragmatic person very concrete
making kind of a person and I knew how far from shore I was I knew that I was in dire
straits. I’ve seen people die in the river before and I knew that the likelihood of anyone
coming and saving me was slim and best. So I made a decision at that point in time
that I believe it was the first thing that changed the course of my life and I asked
at that point in time that God’s will be done and I grew up going to church. I mean I took
my own kids to church. I’ve said the Lord’s Prayer right soon I don’t know hundreds of
thousands of times and of course in that prayer one asks for God’s will to be done but I think
I’m a very typical sort of person and I saw that there and I like most people want God’s
will to be done as long as it’s it all sort of in line with what you’re doing. Yes and
you know my timetable because I was a very self-confident, reliant person and I had a
pretty good handle with my life. But at that moment in time I truly passed
only that God’s will be done whatever that meant and the moment I asked that I was immediately
overcome with a very physical sensation of being held and comforted and reassured that
everything was fine. Regardless of whether I lived or died my husband would be fine.
My kids would be fine, everything was fine and it was that work fine not happy. Wonderful
great but fine sign. And it was the first of many profound aspects of this experience
because I knew that it was Christ who was holding me and I knew that not only was the
Christ holding me but that Christ the holding anyone who asked it wasn’t me it wasn’t that
I was some special person. And as I was still under water we went through a bit of a life
review it was a life review like anything I would have imagined if I had thought about
it I probably would have imagined the Hollywood version. You know your life flashes across the sky
and you know you see all the things you did well and all the things that you could have
done better right. But it wasn’t like that. It was profound in that we didn’t look at
events in my life that would have otherwise been considered bad or sad or curable or that
all sorts of things like that and then I was given this incredible privilege of seeing
the ripple effects of those events and seeing the impact that those events had not just
through four or five times or move twenty-five, thirty, thirty-five times removed. Sandra: Wow! Mary: And it was profound because it forever
changed my understanding of events how it affects us how. Facts our world or our impression
of things. But we never really have the opportunity to see the real outcome of an event and the
fact is there really is beauty that comes out of every single event whether we as little
people can appreciate it or not and so that was pretty remarkable on and I was still my
you know my cynical self and my little love ballon after the side was sort of watching
all this thinking wow this is really strange. I know that I’ve been underwater too long
to be alive. But I felt more alive than I’ve ever felt. And here I was having this incredible
experience with Christ and I was going to this is this is a little strange and I kept
doing self-assessment exams trying to figure out if I was I don’t know what hallucinating
or something but I said no I’m STILL love with it I could feel the water, I could feel
the current working on my body, I could feel my body being sucked out of the boat. I could
feel my knees bent back on themselves and you know I’m as I said I’m an orthopedic surgeon
I could feel the balance breaking and I remember thinking how does that sound. You know that
feels like that ligament. That’s not good and at the same time it nodded yes Mary Sandra: did you see Jesus or like have this
feeling into you just that point in time it was a physical sensation. OK Mary: I wasn’t I wasn’t looking at him at
that point time it was as though you’re holding a small baby and you’re pouring all of your
love into that baby. But in that situation I was the baby I was just the receptacle of
this incredible love absolute pure love and then as my body came out of the boat my spirit
separated from my body and I rose up and out of the. River and I was immediately greeted
by a group of somethings people or beings angels. Another really quite sure what to
call them because those names mean different things to different people. Sandra: I like something to say some things Mary: but they were so overjoyed to welcome
me and greet me and guide me and I knew that they were of God I knew that they were from
God I knew that I had known them as long as I had existed and there was a shift and I’m
not sure what the right word is but time dimension something so that I could be with them and
being led by them at the same time could look back at the river and watch one of the guys
pull my body to the shore and it was really interesting. I can write words but at the
time I was really struck by a couple of things one of which was surprise. Wow OK I guess, I guess I really am dead and
that was that was surprising to me. But then I was also struck by this absolute sense of
being home, of being where I really belonged, as though I’d been on this long journey to
earth and now I was home and I was going to go to sleep in my own bed Sandra: Oh and we all know what that feeling’s
like. Mary: Exactly it was absolutely wonderful
and I was a little bit saddened by the realization that when I look back at my body I recognize
that that was my body that represented me, my life on earth, my family and I recognized
keeping in mind that I’ve been reassured that they would be fine. I recognize that I had
absolutely no intention of returning. And you know I felt a little guilty not at the
time but a little guilty after that. Nonetheless, I hadn’t planned on returning
and Andes. Spirits then took me down this practically beautiful pathway and beauty of
course is different for each person but it was a pathway that spoke to me and I absolutely
believe that God not only sent as most gentle messengers to collect this but really speaks
to us in the way that we will each understand. And for me that involves color and flowers
and aromas like the aromas of flowers and other people that responded up but that’s
what really moves my soul and this path was exploding with color of an intensity that
doesn’t exist here on Earth of colors that don’t even exist and it was as though it was
the essence of the color. And so I could experience each color all at
the same time without you know without mixing and making brown it was the essence of it
all and the flowers were incredibly intense and everything was absolutely do with this
pure absolute love of God. I mean just a little of the love that again we can we for whatever
reason are just not able to experience here and they were taking me to it this great sort
of beyond hall of sorts and I knew it was basically the point of no return and I can
hardly wait to get there and I want to run but I couldn’t. One of the guys who kept calling
me back that I would have to go back and I’d like to take a breath and then I’d rejoin
these spirits that were taking me. That’s like a one on a number of times and it was
interesting later on to talk to this guy and compare stories and realize that we were each
equally frustrated with the others for very different reasons. But nonetheless I kept going down this path
way and eventually got to this threshold and I could see inside and see a lot of other
you know beings angels running around very busy but when I was on this threshold it was
a really another very profound time for me because all I had to do was think about something
and I had an understanding. it was as though I understood everything I understood how everything
worked I understood everything about the universe. And one of the things that was really profound
for me personally was coming to an understanding of how it can be true that God knows each
and every one of us and loves each and every one of us as though we’re the only ones and
has a plan for each and every one of our lives that’s one of hope. Because that is something
that was always troubling to me because as I said I’m a pragmatic person. There are billions
of us on the planet. You know we have so much trouble knowing or loving the person down
the street that you know it doesn’t look like us doesn’t do what we like to do doesn’t agree
with us. We have so much trouble that how could God
really know and love each and every one of us. Sandra: And so often we don’t love ourselves
right. Mary: Well exactly you know what that’s exactly
right. I’ve said many times that you know the Bible tells us that nothing can come between.
Yes I got slugged. But I would disagree. We can’t be doing it. Oh you’re exactly right.
You know own times is worthy of that love. Yeah but I and I can’t explain how it works
but I can assure you that not only are those promises true but all of the promises are
true. That was great and I thought OK well you know let’s get this show on the road lets
go and then at a certain point I was told that it was my time that I had more work to
do on earth and I had to go back to my body. And so I did what I think any reasonable person
would do and said not a good idea everything’s OK I’m staying here and I’m going back. And
obviously I’m not a very good debater because I did not win that argument, I am back. So
then they took me back down this path way and that I was reunited with my body. And
at that point it was an absolute state of shock that I had been what my kids would say
was kicked out. I mean I just couldn’t believe that I was back on Earth and it was a number
of months before I came to grips with that. But I was reunited with my body with a number
of very serious injuries and my legs had multiple broken bones ripped ligaments, I developed
a severe case of this sort of this pulmonary problem and keep in mind I was in the middle
of nowhere. So it required a whole series of miracles to get me back to Wyoming which
is where I had decided to go for my medical care. Even though it’s I mean what I even when I
look back on it it’s not this part of the story makes sense but there was really no
one to help me. I couldn’t do that. No one along the way because I was perceived as the
kind of the medical expert. Right. So that part is crazy but I then I ended up being
back again in the I.C.U. for a while and while I was in the intensive care unit I had another
couple more out of body experiences. But another experience what I believe I was in heaven
I was in this just beautiful field and again it was the same experience in terms of the
most intense beauty and color and emotion and pure love and I at that point you know
took me a long time to say this aloud to anyone but I had another conversation with Christ
and it took me a long time to talk about it because it was so incredibly personal and
it seemed so outrageous at the same time. Even though the reality of Christ we all talk
about yeah you know we have a personal relationship but I don’t really I don’t think many of us
really believe it? And so when it’s true then you think oh wow this is I can’t tell anyone
about this. But nonetheless I was in this incredibly beautiful
sun drenched field and again it’s a beauty that speaks to me and other people who have
had near death experiences. Again describe incredible beauty albeit different beauty
because they appreciate things differently. And at that time we talked more about it.
Some of the work I had to do on earth some of which had to do with the future death of
my oldest son. And in talking about that you know we sort
of went back and again talked about what I had been shown and when I was still under
water with regard to the beauty that comes out of every event regardless of how we as
individuals see it, perceive it or experience it. So you heard your son’s future death.
Is that what you’re saying? Mary: Yes, I was told that before I was sent
back to my body my and then during the subsequent out of body experience visit to heaven however
you want to describe it. Yes we talked more about it so I knew that that I didn’t know
the time and date but I did know that that was likely in the future. So the first thing
I did was ask the nurses what medications I was receiving because of course I wanted
more o whatever it was. And as it turns out though other than antibiotics
I was not receiving any narcotics or hallucinogenic. The fact is I didn’t have pain for almost
two weeks despite having multiple injuries. I didn’t have pain for almost two weeks and
I had this sense of being neither here nor there. I have I sort of felt otherworldly.
And then after this second out of body experience I was back in I.C.U. and there were some remarkable
things that happened within the I.C.U. but then at that point. These veil began reforming.
And I felt more and more like I was physically here on this earth. And then I did have pain. And then I had multiple surgeries and many
months of rehab and during those many months afterwards I obviously spent all day every
day thinking about my experiences and thinking about one of the things I had been told which
was early this mandate to share my experiences with other people. And in doing so help other
people enter into a deeper relationship with God and help them make this transformation
from a faith or hope that the promises of God are true to absolute trust. And in doing
so entirely change their life Sandra: that’s beautiful and not having a
near death experience. So you believe that that’s huge. Mary: So I spent many months trying to figure
out what I thought about it because before I could share it with anyone I had to decide
whether I thought it was just a dream or a hallucination or a chemical reaction of a
dying brain. And so I spent many months trying to corroborate the details that could be corroborated.
Listening to the stories of people that have involved, researching what happens to a dying
brain and then the whole thing and yeah and after many months my conclusion absolutely
was that it was real. The people who resuscitated me are involved in the sort of thing not infrequently.
This is part of what they do and they are very clear on the time frame and they believe
that I was without oxygen for thirty minutes. And within that thirty minutes there were
probably they think a total of fifteen minutes where first of all they there are five to
seven minutes when they didn’t know I was missing because usually when there’s a problem
on the river you’re either missing the kayaker or missing the boat, but not both. So it took
them a while to figure out that I was missing and then it took them a while because of the
particulars of this river and this waterfall. It took a while to figure out where I must
be and when they finally figured out where the boat nine must be they started to watch
because time is obviously very important want to become one comes to deciding whether you’re
trying to rescue someone or just recover the body and from that time to the time they began
C.P.R. not completed it was fifteen minutes on the watch. And so I tend to focus on fifteen
minutes because that’s the shortest objective period of time without oxygen. But even at fifteen minutes it’s too long,
it’s too long to hope to survive without mitigating factors like water temperature or things like
that and more importantly it’s definitely too long to survive without severe brain damage.
And my kids would tend to disagree. The fact is I didn’t suffer brain damage. And so in
the end I had to conclude that it was a real deal and conclusion that not only I can come
to but I think that any person who puts out the time and effort because it really does
take time and effort anyone who wants to put out the time and effort to actually look to
collect the data to look with an open mind. I believe anyone who actually looks we’ll
find evidence of God’s presence in their own lives let alone other people’s lives and in
the end will come to the same conclusion that there are many experiences not just experiences
like mine but many experiences in their own lives that can only be explained by God’s
presence. And once you get to a point where you accept
that, start making a conscious decision that yes I have seen God’s presence in my own life
and I believe that to be true I think that’s a game changer for people. That’s because
it’s at that point that you accept all of the promises and one of those promises is
that there is life after death. And if you truly, truly accept that there is life after
death it changes the way you experience every moment of every day. It totally changes you
mentioned earlier. At the very beginning of your show that it changes your fear. And I would absolutely one hundred percent
agree with you because so many people are so afraid of dying that they never listen.
And if you can take that fear away if you can take that off the table and if you can
say yes I know there is life after death then it changes everything you experience because
you don’t need to have fear. You don’t need to have fear of life because life is a journey.
And truly beauty comes out of every event. It changes the way certainly I experience
every event that changes the way I experience now. I don’t let my son’s death which did
that’s Sandra: that’s what I was afraid to ask,
did he in fact the way you did Mary: yes, he died ten years later. Well yeah
there are reasons for me to think that the plan for his life had changed but it didn’t.
And I will tell you that after his death I certainly love this boy. I mean I loved him
intensely, I liked him. I would never say that I was happy happiness and joy are very
different. I was devastated as a parent can be. But even on my most sad day I would still
say with absolute honesty that I was filled with joy because I had an absolute trust that
my son’s death was part of God’s plan for his life. That incredibly beautiful things
would come out of his life and his death, regardless of whether I as an individual is
going to have the privilege of seeing those effects. I mean I actually have had the privilege
of seeing many of them but I have an absolute trust that there will be beautiful things
that came of it. And I also know that it’s just part of the deal. I mean I’ll see him
again he’ll you know he’s around. If you truly accept that there’s life after death then
you realize that our life here is just this little blink of time. It’s really very short.
We don’t have much time to get our work done. Sandra: You know I thought it was a good book
title for your next book. Death is part of the deal. Mary: It is it is and. And we should be afraid
of. I really I find it very interesting because people many times have asked me what my colleagues
think what other physicians think and I say all the time that if you lined up a hundred
doctors and asked them if they believe in life after death probably ninety seven of
them would say I don’t think so. But if you lined up one hundred nurses ninety nine of
them would say absolutely because the nurses are the ones who are at the bedside during
stressful situations. They’re the ones who are at the bedside during that end of life
period. So they are the ones that hear the stories
at some point. If you hear the same story one hundred times or a thousand times you
have to accept that there’s some truth. You know if someone told you that Johnny’s Burgers
down the street has the best burger on the planet you’d sort it all OK. If people told
you that you would say you know what I’m going to go get one of those must be incredible.
A million people told you that you wouldn’t bother even getting a hamburger there because
you would know it to be true. Sandra: I love that. And that’s part of the
reason I have this show too is I want to be the burger that everybody loves playing really
well not exactly. Mary: But that’s really wonderful experiences
are very common. Yes most people don’t talk about them but I personally am just one individual
and I have probably listened to at least four hundred people tell me their story and probably
are not so extensive they’re not all dramatic. They’re not going to tell people because they
think people aren’t going to believe them. Or they told one person and they were shot
down. But I cannot tell you how many people told me their stories and they’re all the
same, that the type of beauty differs but people talk about this incredible love of
God and intense beauty and the change that it made within their spirit. Sandra: Do you have any thoughts of people
that are of a different religion? You know like you said the beauty in the fields and
the flowers that was your beauty that’s what came to you Do you think people of different
faiths will see what’s appropriate to them. That’s just Mary: yes. Sandra: OK. Mary: There are fewer written accounts from
other cultures partly because there are more taboos right but that the accounts that are
written share similar areas but yes they are different in who greets they are different
in the type of beauty they see that they are different but they do exist and I don’t have
any idea how it works for anyone but me. You know I don’t I’m not going to pretend to know
what someone else’s experience is going to be like. I know that I am a just a normal
person and I know what I know and I think that God does sends us among his most gentle
messengers. And I do think that we all experience God’s incredible love. But people ask me about
other religions and I have no idea. I’m not you know, that wasn’t my experience mine was
a Christian experience. I don’t know how it works for other people just Sandra: I’m just curious and I also want
to tell you give me like a humongously tremendous gift in the beginning when you were talking
about when you had your life review and when you said you know when the bad things happened
or all that. You know I expected you to say that you saw the impact your actions had on
to another person’s life and you know you felt bad or you got some compassion whatever,
but instead you said you saw the ripple effect of beauty and like blessings and how good
things can happen cause I think all of us including myself have had some crummy things
happen in life or we might have made some not so great choices and impacted another
life but what a whole new way of looking at things to say you know what you know that
had to happen that way because a ripple effect of how we’ve learned and grown and made a
difference I rather Mary: I would agree. I only count as well
and you’re welcome and really that is one of the most difficult aspects of this experience
to explain to people. But I think it’s one of the most profound because again even thinking
that your actions are terrible is a very egocentric way of looking at things. I mean the fact
is there’s incredible beauty. I mean that doesn’t take the responsibility off of us
in any moment of any day or to be the best person we can be you can’t say OK it’s all
it’s all good so I can do whatever I want but leave me that’s not what I’m saying. Our
responsibility to is to constantly and continually strive for God’s leading and strive to be
the person that God knows us and wants us to be. But having said that you know every
event people get overwhelmed with the events of the world and you know they say well how
can there be a god when there’s so much evil but the fact is you don’t develop compassion
a loss you see sorrow. Sandra: Right. Mary: You don’t develop any of those characteristics.
If we lived in a utopia you wouldn’t have. Military to develop in any way or learn anything.
And I believe for example my son signed up for his deal. I believe that he signed up
to you know knowing that his life would be short. I think all of us signed up for those
things and it’s a very cold, people interpret that as a very cold view of events in the
world and I am not discounting our responsibility to react appropriately grow change learn etc.
But and when you look at events the further in the past they are the easier it is to see
the beauty and to try to recognize that this is an ongoing process. You know if you look
at Christ and its one example I use because it was a long time ago you know I don’t
even care who you think he was he was a historical person who was betrayed by a best friend arrested
beaten humiliated and murdered in a really nasty way. And if that happened today we would all be
distraught, it be all over the Internet you know all over the newspapers we’d be bringing
our hands. And in fact, at the time his disciples were moping about you know they were saying
are could this happened. Well the fact is it changed the world, and without Christ’s
crucifixion those prophecies would never have been fulfilled. So was that a terrible thing?
Well, no, we all celebrated today actually. Sandra: Exactly. Mary: But I am quite sure at the time they
were not celebrating. I know they were you know they were lamenting the evil in the world.
And you can point to a lot of events. And again we have much better vision retrospective.
Really it’s very difficult for us to understand things real time or prospectively which is
why my emphasis is so much on making this very conscious transformation from the hope
or faith to a trust because trust is a moment by moment decision.
And if you trust then you can sort of rid you know you can adapt to the things that
are happening at a moment. It’s like if you are walking down a mountain
trail and your focus is on whatever the parking lot because that’s where your car is you’re
going to walk down the sun even trail and your foot’s going to come down on all kinds
of little divets or rocks or bumps and your body’s going to kind of you know adapt one
right the other but it’s not that you’re going to get caught up you’re not going to fall
over because you trust that your car is in the parking lot and you’re looking ahead you’re
looking up you’re not looking down at your feet. It’s the same kind of thing I mean if you
have the trust that God’s promises are true one of which is that God has a plan for every
person’s life that is one of hope then you can react differently to events that happen
because you can trust that the beauty will be there regardless of whether you can see
it or not. Sandra: I love that you gave me such a huge
gift today and so many things that you believe Mary: truly are such an incredible privilege
to be able to share my experience. You talk about a ripple effect and I trust when this
final moment that you do pass. Sandra: Holy cow when you see a gigantic ripple
effect of how your words in every interaction have inspired people to live a better life
and take more risks. Never see maybe you will in that final life review but wow I am so
well all right now Mary: is I better because this is not something
I ever would have signed up for. Sandra: No, no, no. my whole journey started
because of the death of my dad I never even bought into life after death before. You know
so I have a whole life and I have so much joy and so much so much pleasure by able to
make a difference with another person and also it gives it right back to me I feel like
a million bucks right now. So thank you I hope you do too. Mary: Well I do and that truly is one of the
one of my great sorrows in life is that so often times people don’t want to you do the
world or view events with even a sense of possibility and makes me great you know. There’s
a great sadness because people could be experiencing life in a very joyful manner, Sandra: But I think there’s that of those
of us I look into rather and you because I’m so excited so I apologize but I think that
those of us who are out to share how great the hamburger is and eventually they’ll come
around and like I’ve got to go get her. So I think Mary: Exactly. Sandra: You just have to trust that enough
of us get together with the same story that eventually people believe I mean people used
to believe the earth was flat and now I mean take that away. So it just takes time for
the messengers and I thank you for all the sharing. Thank you thank you thank you. Mary: Thank you. Sandra: Our time’s coming to an end do you
have any closing words? If not I have I want to read your daily creed if I may that I found
on you. Sure. OK Well first of all so thank you again Dr. Neal. Really truly honestly
do you just. Right a huge amount of delight and joy and hope and faith and trust to my
life to my day. And thank you to our listener for listening. You can find out more about
Dr. Mary Neal at Dr. Mary Neal dot com and also I have a website We Don’t Die Radio which
I’ll have more about this interview and more about Dr. Mary Neal and how to contact her. This is Sandra Champlain I believe that life
is an education for the soul and that your life here on Earth truly is important. So
as I promised these are some words from Dr. Mary Neal. She calls it my daily creed, “I
believe God’s promises are true. I believe heaven is real. I believe nothing can separate
me from God’s love. I believe God has work for me to do. I believe God will see me through
and carry me when I cannot walk. So I invite each one of us to believe that there truly
is work for each of us to do that our lives here on earth are for a purpose that heaven
is very, very real and believe that you are not alone even at your most difficult times.”
So thanks for listening and we’ll see you soon.